Can't decide if I should change tranny fluid

[dkl]

Excellent and a very valid point. Does anyone have access to the official TSB on the lifetime transmission fluid?

My understanding is that BMW have revised the original lifetime recommendation to 100k miles on both the 3.0i and 4.4i with Steptronics (as written on my Service and Warranty Information booklet, which applies to both 3.0i and 4.4i). However, my Owner's Manual still indicates the "Lifetime Fluid" and states that it never requires changing. I can certainly understand the cause of confusion, especially when even BMW can't get it straight.

[AW8]

Mines going in to main dealer tomorrow to get this done.

80k miles showing and I'm the third owner.

No shifting problems or issues.

In the uk our cars have 3 yrs warranty but after that & if not extended then bmw do run a goodwill scheme. At my mileage I wouldnt expect any goodwill unless a major component failed such as the engine or the gearbox. What I do know is that full bmw history and mileage are relevant in any decision. For this reason I would only recommend getting a change done by a bmw dealer on a car under 100k and with full history. Chances are if the box fails over 100k bmw may show little goodwill if any at all. Under 100k there is the remote chance they may offer to help with cost. I have asked then the dealer to do the work because if someone else does it and the box later fails at under 100k bmw will simply tell me to go away because I wouldn't have given their network the maintenance business and importantly they may claim it was changed incorrectly.

They wont be doing a torque convertor flush. I have asked them to drain ATF from sump, remove and replace pan filter, replace gasket, replace o ring and the bolt. I shall be asking them to clean out bottom of sump and also to produce to me the old parts so I know it has been done properly. If I still have the car 100k I may decide to do a simple d.i.y. drain refill that way more of the old ATF , (a fair bit in torque convertor isnt replaced), will be replaced / diluted with more new stuff.


I had been indecisive re getting this done and on the fence, however, I recently noticed minor ATF leakage around the gasket, hence I booked it in before any level drop cusues damage or premature failure.

Despite using bmw dealer I am very nervous re getting this done as I know most dealers arent asked to perform this and thus they technicain doing mine may have never had to do a drain and refill. I have printed off the ZF guide to the correct drain and refill procedure and there is a correct set of actions required to shift through gears at speicific temeratures so as to ensure the fill is done correctly. I really dont want to irriate the dealership, (as this can be counter productive), but I am hoping I can speak to the technician allocated to my car prior to the work going ahead.

Busy day tomorrow, I'm having to work through the night then to bed in morning, hopefully d.i.y. changing my Final Stage Resistor as well as taking my car to dealer in afternoon for the ATF change and an oil inspection, ( supplying own oil). Also need to get a puncture repair urgently as I recently found a screw in my tyre and it is losing air, (fortunately screw is in centre of tread pattern not edge so should repair okay).

Fwiw I believe the 3.0i has the GM tranny whereas mine has the ZF - I need to check this though. Afaik the ZF5HP24 seems to be more probe to failyre than the GM unit though I have no figures to back that up- just my interpretation having spent a fair ammount of time reading up on various bmw and specifically X5 boards.

With varous auto worries as well as turbo concerns on the diesels, (where available in world), it seems the most worry free used E53 experience may be with a manual shift 3.0i and no NAV.

Link below gives the most accurate stats on pros and cons relative to changes with OE fluid or others - best data that I have seen online though by no means conclusive as too many factors that cant be documeted, (e.g. not being able to attribute failures post change to bad drain/refil procedure)

click for link

click for X5 discussion here link here

bmwland chat here

[ljnlaw]

Well I have an '02 4.6is and I flipped the coin and decided to have mine flushed at 50k. I also use synth engine oil and change it every 3k to 5k (dealer reccomends to change every 10k to 15k). If the dealer was paying my service and repair bills then I would follow their advice. If its flushed and filled by someone who knows what they are doing it should not be a problem. I have always been proactive in the maintenance of my vehicles and if something is "going" I will replace it without question...my father on the other hand is sometimes penny wise, pound foolish, and he often waits until his dash is lit up like a Christmas tree before he takes his car in for service or repair. I don't believe there is a right or wrong...but one way or another you always pay in the end.

By the way I have never taken my car to a dealer for service...I have a private mechanic who I trust and respect (VAC Motorsports), to the point where if I suggest something and he feels it does not need to be done he will tell me straight. Most dealers now adays (and I have friends that work at dealers) don't go the extra mile to diagnose and fix problems...Obviously this is just my opinion, but I have always relied upon private mechanics to service all of my rides and in my area Armand Salloum (VAC) and Mike Yaskin (Bavarian Specialties) are both TOP NOTCH nationally respected BMW guys.

[AW8]

.............seems you have a good bunch of tech's who know what they are doing.

As stated mine was booked in last week for oils ervice plus ATF change plus filter ands sundries.

Having prior made 2 calls and sent emails re this work dealer called me 30 mins from drop off & the conversation went a bit like this.

Dealership " Are you sure you want the Transmission fluid done ? "

Me "Yes"

Dealership "You do know that you can get problems from doing this ! "

Me " Yes -That's why I supplied the ZF manual "

Dealership " We have done ATF drain and refills on these before and done the procedure as per the BMW service manual connecting the car up to a machine that tells us when the new ATF is up to the right temperature for shifting geers and topping up/bleeding. Despite this we have had boxes fail near immediately after the work. We had one X5 in for new fluid as the owner was paranoid about his car. We did it all by the book and reversed the car of the ramp -THE GEARBOX WENT BANG AND THAT WAS IT- A NEW BOX WAS REQUIRED.
Me " Was his car under warranty"

Dealership "I cant remember but I think not - BMW made a contribution but he ended up with a big bill "

Me " I am concerned re the signs of ATF around the gearbox sump gasket"

Dealership "We will check the torque of the bolts"

Me "If it was your car would you have the ATF changed"

Dealership "Absolutely NOT.........and I know we are turning work away"

Decision - Dealer checked torque of the pan / sump bolt heads and claims leakage was sweating only & near insignificant. I am not confident any bmw main dealer will do a correct drain /refill, (without torque convertor flush).

Dilema - Non dealer work under 100k means waiver of goodwill in event of failure...........Leaving it until 100k increases risk of failure from debris movement on drain or flush. Doing nothing fails to reassure.

Interim decision - run car as is & if owned over 100k consider drain and refill or drain flush and refill. Any work will have to be performed by ZF gearbox specialist &/or BMW Indy Expert with experience of changing and/or flushing box as on mine, (5HP24).

Frustrating............. I suspect whatever I do this will often be in the back of my mind.

[ljnlaw]

Very frustrating indeed, I should note that when I had mine done at 50k miles my X was already out of warranty. I also knew that if I had a tranny failure my mechanic would have installed a new tranny at a more reasonable price than what a dealer would have charged for the same service. I have never really trusted dealers for service, on the other hand my mechanic is an active member of the BMWCCA and his shop is well respected in the SCCA racing circles and BMW communities internationally. Most dealers do NOT participate in the BMWCCA or events and care less about BMWCCA people because they are in the bizz of selling cars (for the most part) to the average consumer. Yes the average consumer, who often doesn't concern themselves with the differences, other than price, between BMW, Lexus, MB...etc.

[Bismark]

I work in a transmission shop, ( 15 years ). I can tell you from first hand experience that every time we change the transmission fluid on a bmw with ZF tranny (4.4L) or GM tranny (3.0L), the fluid is almost BLACK in color, dirty and has a burnt odor. When it comes to changing transmission fluid on any transmission, including BMW, Mercedes or any other brand, the same laws of physics, of chemistry, of tribology (lubrication), of heat transfer apply. The fact of the matter is simple : transmission fluids get old, dirty, oxidized and contaminated, with time and usage. So change it and change it often (every 30,000 miles ) if you want longevity and like- new performance for your transmission. Also change the filter too. SEEING IS BELEIVING.