Ok let me compile this conversation and you correct me if I'm wrong.

What you said was "African Americans, of all people, should be the most accepting, due to the fact they've had to fight for equal rights, this of coarse pertaining to the seperate but not equal argument."

I said "You're not going thru the same issues, not by a long shot. Not even close"

You said "See I disagree I think they are very close"

I said in what way?

And now your going to tell me "Can't you read up? I said in the context of Seperation never being truly equal"?

I'm going to be nice about this and ask you to explain yourself so i don't misjudge what you mean by your comments before i answer. If you wish to avoid the issue then fine say so. Other wise please clarify what you mean.

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People pay for what they do, and still more for what they have allowed themselves to become. And they pay for it very simply; by the lives they lead.
James A. Baldwin

So are you saying the questions I'm asking are stupid because you don't agree with them? Or are you unwilling the face the real question regarding how two people of the same sex are going to have children? I believe any child who grows up in that kind of environment are going to have some serious issues to face that may out weight any issues they may face in a stable foster home or having one parent.

geez! Even I can understand his point.

African Americans: discrimination, separate but not equal, looked down upon, etc... (We aren't talking about slavery). Civil rights movement=less discrimination, more equality, better general public understanding.

Same Sex: discrimination, separate but not equal, looked down upon, etc...
Last few years/decade: less discrimination, more equality (Same sex marriage, case in point), less stigma, more socially acceptable.

While no, they aren't on equal terms at all (it was much more severe for African Americans) you can get the point-both groups were frowned upon in society, now both groups are more or less equal to all.

What more do you need?

And regarding post above.....welcome to 2008. It's not hugely rare that a kid has a mommy and a mommy or daddy and a daddy. I'm sure most turned out normal, at least more normal than if they were transfered from foster home to foster home, or had a single parent trying to raise/support a family by themselves.

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T
2008 BMW 135i Convertible
2007 BMW X5 3.0si
2007 BMW X3 3.0si
2003 BMW X5 3.0i (retired)

I feel that African Americans and homosexuals have alot in common in the fact that both have dealt with the cruel understanding that separate is never equal, so I made the comment in that context, take as you please. I'm referring to us being allowed civil unions vs marriage, reference to colored bathrooms vs white bathrooms, the list goes on and on....

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Because no one has the right to deny another their life, even though they disagree with it, because everyone has the right to live the life they so desire if it doesn't harm another and because discrimination has no place in America, my vote will be for equality and against Proposition 8. Join us this fall and place a vote for equality, not a vote for hate, a vote for 8 is a vote for hate!
www.letcaliforniaring.org

Many Many Well-Known and Respected Groups Disgree With You
American Association of Pediatrics
American Psychological Association
North American Council on Adoptable Children

Among Many Others

Reference those above opinions as to why we can't always allow the
"majority" to determine people's certain social freedoms.

Here is a great little piece:

What Does This Mean for Gays?

A gay partner of ten years must sit and watch his partner on life support without the legal right to make a decision on his survival. A lesbian resident of Florida who loses her partner in a tragedy also faces losing the children they raised together because she could never legally adopt them. A gay partner cannot receive disaster relief assistance for his missing partner because they have no legal ties; just as with the partners of many gay 9/11 victims who did not meet the eligibility requirements for federal aid not due to inadequate proof of relationship or financial ties, but because there was no legal basis for their commitment.

Under the Federal Defense of Marriage Act, same-sex couples cannot receive assistance from the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the overseers of disaster recovery on American soil. State level and Social Security benefits are only allocated to legally defined married couples as well, which does not include gays.

When gay advocates speak of gay rights, they speak of equal rights not special rights. Gay couples, who live without the legal protection of gay marriage or gay adoption (a move that the American Academy of Pediatrics, American Psychological Association, North American Council on Adoptable Children and other organizations support), want the comfort and ability to make important decisions and protect their families in times of crisis. A time when families are strengthened through love and support even in the wake of tragedy.

Special Thanks as this excerpt is from about.com/gaylife

This is the issue Barry, No matter what you think of Gay people, nobody deserves this, NOBODY, Now yes, CA is a very progressive state, we always have been, and we need to remember just how lucky we are, but the issues here do exist and real people have to deal with them every day


Equality CA puts it best:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=h0Vg9vDtAoQ

blondboinsd;

I appreciate your comments so please don't take the following comments personally as they are meant to address the ruling which is the basis and context of this thread.

I may be in the minority in this thread in that I may be the only one who will take a stand against this issue, but stand against it I will at least on the following grounds.

Just because it's 2008 doesn't mean we drop what we believe in because society is changing and everybody else thinks it's right. Some may believe that 2 people loving each other regardless of their sexual orientation is enough and that people have a right to do what ever they want.

However do people really have a right to do what they want in society just because they want to? Some people think so. But It seems to me that If we accept anything that comes along as a right, (as is being argued by the live and let live part of society), what moral fiber shall our society ever have to deny organized chaos from other humans that believe in the rights they might claim under the rubrics of individual freedom and human rights?"

Many People feel that African Americans and homosexuals have a lot in common on the basis of civil rights. However in reality the gay and lesbian movement have frequently tried to cloak themselves in the civil rights movement for African Americans without recognizing the differences . . . and that has quite rightly been seen as offensive to people of color especially when such comparisons come from a group the media often portrays as affluent, male and white.

Have "Gay people been persecuted throughout history? Perhaps they have but that is nothing to compare to state-sanctioned centuries of oppression,"

Gays and lesbians have never needed separate restrooms, separate drinking fountains, are not being met by dogs and truncheons (and) are not being lynched, tared and feathered and have not been enslave for 400 years. That is a huge, profound difference,"

It is also evident that gay activists are "hijacking" the nation's civil rights movement; using hard-fought gains for racial minorities and women to justify an orientation many find morally repugnant.

"These same people are trying to hijack the moral capital of the black civil rights movement and use it to force society to affirm their behavior, regardless of other people's moral beliefs about it.

The bottom line? "Skin color or ethnicity involves no moral choices . . but how you conduct yourself sexually does," Having said that there are many who will not support this decision and will not stand by and applaud it.

I understand that many people will not come out and express their disagreement with this ruling because they feel they will have to take the heat from people who believe everyone has the right to do whatever they want just because they have the right to do it. Personally i don't agree and i wish people would just stop standing on the pedestal of civil rights as if it's some stepping stone to an approved condition from the rest of us. It just isn't.

Barry,

I hope you know by now, I have a ton of respect for you. But just so we are clear, on this issue, you should be VERY ashamed of yourself.

Bo doesn't know what it's like to be black and you don't know what it's like to be gay. And to belittle the prejudice that the gay community suffers because you don't accept the behavior is quite hypocritical and narcassitic.

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"When two people agree on everything, one of them is not necessary" - Arliss

Yeah, both groups tend to blame their problems on a group of people

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The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases - Thomas Jefferson
http://www.lp.org/
I'm heavenly blessed and worldly wise.